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#1 2012-12-03 23:34:01

leifs
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From: Ørsta Norway
Registered: 2009-09-06
Posts: 482
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Quasi HDR using Photomatix

This forum is about informationsharing. I will share some smile

Outdoor photography in Norway in december is quite a challenge: the sun is low, snow on the summits, the camera's dynamic range of 13EV is not enough and so on.
As an experiment I tried a new approach: shoot RAW, develope to TIFF in 0EV plus in 2EV, fuse the two using Photomatix, detect and stich in APG.

The resulting pano at first look fine and the effect (lift the shadows) was as wanted.
But. There is "always" a but.
In Photomatix v4.2 there is no longer a 360 checkbox. I can understand why: how could Photomatix know what are the neighbouring images in a sphere ?
Now Photomatix produce a resulting image out of a stack without looking at the neighbourhood.

The result in my test case is "this is not optimal. look further".
See for yourself. Rise to 45 deg and rotate this pano.  http://www.rundskuer.no/panotour/skaret … ltour.html

Leif


Olympus OM-D E-M5, Panasonic 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Leica 25mm f1.4, Olympus 75mm f1.8, Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L
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#2 2012-12-04 00:05:34

klausesser
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From: Düsseldorf, Germany
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Posts: 6601
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

leifs wrote:

In Photomatix v4.2 there is no longer a 360 checkbox.

Hope you didn´t use it before!? It´s not for images to stitch - it´s for "closing" the both ends of a single rectangular/equirectangular image to avoid a seam . . .

In the beginning i sometimes made the mistake checking the box when i processed images for stitching . . cool


Btw.: i suggest to keep using 3 or more brackets . . . wink

best, Klaus

Last edited by klausesser (2012-12-04 00:06:56)


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#3 2012-12-04 08:39:56

gkaefer
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From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 2713
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

leifs wrote:

In Photomatix v4.2 there is no longer a 360 checkbox.

it is still there. in Fusion and in hdr mode - just scroll down to bottom. in my case with Fusion ist visible directly and in hdr mode I've to scroll down because of multiple options available...
Georg


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Last edited by gkaefer (2012-12-04 08:41:00)

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#4 2012-12-04 09:22:21

leifs
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From: Ørsta Norway
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Posts: 482
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

gkaefer wrote:

it is still there. in Fusion and in hdr mode - just scroll down to bottom.
Georg

I was looking for it in batch mode.
Maybe it is not an good idea to use it for a sphere anyhow.

Leif


Olympus OM-D E-M5, Panasonic 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Leica 25mm f1.4, Olympus 75mm f1.8, Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L
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#5 2012-12-04 11:42:53

gkaefer
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From: Salzburg
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

like Klaus dis say. It is not made for Fusion/tonemapping of single Frames of a pano. if you process different layers of the final 360*180 pano each representing a different EV than this Option creates an seamless Transition at the borders...

an in batchmode its here:


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Last edited by gkaefer (2012-12-04 12:11:37)

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#6 2012-12-04 12:31:13

leifs
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From: Ørsta Norway
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Posts: 482
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

Thanks smile

Klaus wrote:  it´s for "closing" the both ends of a single rectangular/equirectangular image to avoid a seam . . .
Since the option also is in the batch-mode it must be more than that.
Maybe it's for neighbouring images in a single-row cylinder, and the closing ends ?

Leif

Last edited by leifs (2012-12-04 12:37:35)


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#7 2012-12-04 13:11:14

gkaefer
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From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 2713
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

leifs wrote:

Thanks smile

Klaus wrote:  it´s for "closing" the both ends of a single rectangular/equirectangular image to avoid a seam . . .
Since the option also is in the batch-mode it must be more than that.
Maybe it's for neighbouring images in a single-row cylinder, and the closing ends ?

Leif

no (according to photomatix infos. if you have 3 bracketed equirectangular Images and with fusing/hdr/tonemapping they are reduced/merged to one Image. if you now fold this Image to a sphere than you've borders where the sphere get closed. if you activate this "360 Image" Option in photomatix, than these borders are manipulated so 1 Pixel left and 1 Pixel right to the border the Image does fit together without creating any visible artifact...
(but have to try it with a cylindrical pano. should be the same...)

http://www.hdrsoft.com/resources/features_list.html
search for 360 here...

and in tips & tricks:
http://www.hdrsoft.com/support/faq_photomatix.html#tour
see Q: "My tone mapped panorama shows a straight vertical seam line. Is there a way to get rid of it?"

Georg

Last edited by gkaefer (2012-12-04 13:27:17)

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#8 2013-01-13 23:49:32

leifs
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From: Ørsta Norway
Registered: 2009-09-06
Posts: 482
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

Today was a bad day sad
I forgot to bring along the SDcard I usually use, with a writing speed of 95MB/s. I've always bring along a couple of other SDcards, and I used on of them.
The scenery cried for HDR ! I used a +1/0/-1 EV setup and started shooting. I heard something was wrong !
The plan B SDcard was not able to swallow the exposures fast enough. Sometime skipping bracket 2 or 3..

So I did a sphere without bracketing. Exposure was decided to avoid burnedout whites and blackout darks. The image below show the scene, and the sky is fine. The ground is too dark. I've tried Photomatix, but it makes artifacts in the sky. I've tried Photoshop "adjustment/levels" but it warps the colors.

Suggestions ?

Leif


Uploaded Images

Last edited by leifs (2013-01-13 23:52:39)


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#9 2013-01-14 00:12:39

gkaefer
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From: Salzburg
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 2713
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

so using the remaining full bracket...
take the raws and produces via rawconverter +1 and -1 EV version. +2 and -2 if needed. now you've 3/5 complete sets of your bracket....
Georg

Last edited by gkaefer (2013-01-14 00:13:52)

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#10 2013-01-14 00:25:10

Destiny
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From: Australia
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

Agreed!.. done it heaps of times with my D90 images to get an extra two exposures.. wink ..  It's not perfect but it works well.. I have also done this on windy days to avoid too much blure with moving leaves... big_smile .. better to keep it to the dark side side of the exposure, one or two steps down, since tooo much light will kill off features..

Destiny...


Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod smile smile

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#11 2013-01-14 00:55:13

klausesser
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From: Düsseldorf, Germany
Registered: 2006-05-22
Posts: 6601
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

leifs wrote:

Today was a bad day sad
I forgot to bring along the SDcard I usually use, with a writing speed of 95MB/s. I've always bring along a couple of other SDcards, and I used on of them.
The scenery cried for HDR ! I used a +1/0/-1 EV setup and started shooting. I heard something was wrong !
The plan B SDcard was not able to swallow the exposures fast enough. Sometime skipping bracket 2 or 3..

So I did a sphere without bracketing. Exposure was decided to avoid burnedout whites and blackout darks. The image below show the scene, and the sky is fine. The ground is too dark. I've tried Photomatix, but it makes artifacts in the sky. I've tried Photoshop "adjustment/levels" but it warps the colors.

Suggestions ?

Leif

1) Use the mirror-lock with bracketing when a card isn´t fast enough . . wink - as a side-effect you can be sure no mirror-shaking influences your bracketed series.

2) Photomatix can´t help yo verey much here. But carefully processing non-brackted RAWs in CaptureOne or in Lightroom could have helped you out in that case.
Set the curves to linear first!

best, Klaus

Last edited by klausesser (2013-01-14 00:57:39)


If you want something you´ve never had,
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#12 2013-01-14 09:32:26

leifs
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From: Ørsta Norway
Registered: 2009-09-06
Posts: 482
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

klausesser wrote:

1) Use the mirror-lock with bracketing when a card isn´t fast enough . . wink - as a side-effect you can be sure no mirror-shaking influences your bracketed series.

2) Photomatix can´t help yo verey much here. But carefully processing non-brackted RAWs in CaptureOne or in Lightroom could have helped you out in that case.
Set the curves to linear first!

best, Klaus

1) mirrorless cameras don't have mirrors. no need to lock it up smile
2) I shoot raw and use DXO to develop the images

I have ordered a couple of speedy SDcards to avoid this problem for the future.
For this case I will have to delve into Photshop.

Leif


Olympus OM-D E-M5, Panasonic 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Leica 25mm f1.4, Olympus 75mm f1.8, Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L
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#13 2013-01-14 13:35:34

lumelix
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From: Basel Switzerland
Registered: 2010-10-25
Posts: 409

Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

leifs wrote:

Suggestions ?Leif

Hi leifs
You can also use the "shadow/lights" tool from PS to lighten up the shadows.
It's the same than with psedo HDR, but with a natural look and only for the shadows.
If it's a 360º-Pano, you should do it before stitching with the single images.
Try out a good setting over all and then do it with a batch job.


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Regards
Martin

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#14 2013-01-14 14:21:00

klausesser
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From: Düsseldorf, Germany
Registered: 2006-05-22
Posts: 6601
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

leifs wrote:

1) mirrorless cameras don't have mirrors. no need to lock it up smile
2) I shoot raw and use DXO to develop the images

I don´t even know how an Olympus looks like . . . how would i know it´s mirrorless wink

best, Klaus


If you want something you´ve never had,
then you´ve got to do something you´ve never done.

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#15 2013-01-14 14:28:09

mediavets
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From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
Posts: 9823
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

klausesser wrote:

leifs wrote:

1) mirrorless cameras don't have mirrors. no need to lock it up smile
2) I shoot raw and use DXO to develop the images

I don´t even know how an Olympus looks like . . . how would i know it´s mirrorless wink

best, Klaus

Here's a review for you:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusem5


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Nodal Ninja 4 with R-D16, Agno's MrotatorTCS short.
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket, Agno's MrotatorA.
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#16 2013-01-14 14:32:07

klausesser
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From: Düsseldorf, Germany
Registered: 2006-05-22
Posts: 6601
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

mediavets wrote:

klausesser wrote:

leifs wrote:

1) mirrorless cameras don't have mirrors. no need to lock it up smile
2) I shoot raw and use DXO to develop the images

I don´t even know how an Olympus looks like . . . how would i know it´s mirrorless wink

best, Klaus

Here's a review for you:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusem5

Thank you Andrew - but i´ve no ambition to know all the cameras on the market . . winkcool

best, Klaus


If you want something you´ve never had,
then you´ve got to do something you´ve never done.

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#17 2013-01-14 14:36:59

mediavets
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From: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Registered: 2007-11-14
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

klausesser wrote:

mediavets wrote:

klausesser wrote:

I don´t even know how an Olympus looks like . . . how would i know it´s mirrorless wink

best, Klaus

Here's a review for you:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusem5

Thank you Andrew - but i´ve no ambition to know all the cameras on the market . . winkcool

best, Klaus

This camera is reported to be the best Micro Four Thirds camera ever made; so it's not just an 'also ran'.

It is becoming popular with pano shooters who seek a more compact and lighter weight system.

Last edited by mediavets (2013-01-14 14:37:26)


Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Nodal Ninja 4 with R-D16, Agno's MrotatorTCS short.
Nikon P5100, CP5000, CP995, FC-E8, WC-E63,WC-E68, TC-E2, Kaidan Kiwi 995, Bophoto pano bracket, Agno's MrotatorA.
Merlin/Orion robotic pano head + Papywizard on Nokia 770/N800/N810 and Windows 8/XP/2K.

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#18 2013-01-14 15:35:24

klausesser
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From: Düsseldorf, Germany
Registered: 2006-05-22
Posts: 6601
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

mediavets wrote:

It is becoming popular with pano shooters who seek a more compact and lighter weight system.

Ah, ok! (i´m not one of them cool)

best, Klaus


If you want something you´ve never had,
then you´ve got to do something you´ve never done.

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#19 2013-01-14 15:45:26

leifs
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From: Ørsta Norway
Registered: 2009-09-06
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

klausesser wrote:

I don´t even know how an Olympus looks like . . . how would i know it´s mirrorless wink
best, Klaus

I guess it is of no interest, but just to let you know it if you see one
dpreview choosed it to "best camera of 2012"  with Nikon D800 in second place smile
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/01/01 … 12-results

Leif


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#20 2013-01-14 16:09:55

klausesser
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

leifs wrote:

klausesser wrote:

I don´t even know how an Olympus looks like . . . how would i know it´s mirrorless wink
best, Klaus

I guess it is of no interest, but just to let you know it if you see one
dpreview choosed it to "best camera of 2012"  with Nikon D800 in second place smile
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/01/01 … 12-results

Leif

Fine. But in the end i definitely prefer a D800 - for many reasons, which are not related to the Oly.

There never was any "best of" choices which really could impress me. Being in the advertising- and marketing-business for
decades i know very well the mechanisms - no matter print or online . . . roll

best, Klaus

"Don´t trust a test you didn´t fake yourself" as we say . . . big_smile


If you want something you´ve never had,
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#21 2013-01-14 20:30:18

leifs
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From: Ørsta Norway
Registered: 2009-09-06
Posts: 482
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

klausesser wrote:

Fine. But in the end i definitely prefer a D800 - for many reasons, which are not related to the Oly.
best, Klaus

I was very surprised to see this. For most photographers D800 would be the best camera short of Hasselblad-type cameras.
Maybe all those who voted for the Oly emphasized the one area where the Oly shine: size and weight. Not only the house but all the pieces in the system.
This is the prime reason for me chosing Oly and the MFT system. there are some superb lenses too smile

Leif

Last edited by leifs (2013-01-14 20:30:56)


Olympus OM-D E-M5, Panasonic 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Leica 25mm f1.4, Olympus 75mm f1.8, Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L
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#22 2013-01-14 22:28:26

leifs
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From: Ørsta Norway
Registered: 2009-09-06
Posts: 482
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

lumelix wrote:

You can also use the "shadow/lights" tool from PS to lighten up the shadows.
It's the same than with psedo HDR, but with a natural look and only for the shadows.
If it's a 360º-Pano, you should do it before stitching with the single images.
Try out a good setting over all and then do it with a batch job.

I have tried this out and it is difficult. I want it to look like I experienced it at the scene.
I stitched it and applied "shadow/lights" tool on the sphere. It looks all right.
http://www.rundskuer.no/panotour/leknes … ltour.html
There is some blownout whites though. And there are some artifacts in the sky, made by the "shadow/lights" tool.
One day I will revisit the pano and try to save the whites and the shadows from DXO and on.

Leif


Olympus OM-D E-M5, Panasonic 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Leica 25mm f1.4, Olympus 75mm f1.8, Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L
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#23 2013-01-15 01:07:56

lumelix
Member
From: Basel Switzerland
Registered: 2010-10-25
Posts: 409

Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

Hi leif
It looks very nice, this pano! Did you use the pole again ?
If you set all values for the "Lights" to "0", the tool shouldn't touch
the sky.
Perhaps there are some artifacts from the JPG-compression ?


Regards
Martin

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#24 2013-01-15 10:02:40

leifs
Member
From: Ørsta Norway
Registered: 2009-09-06
Posts: 482
Website

Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

lumelix wrote:

Hi leif
It looks very nice, this pano! Did you use the pole again ?
If you set all values for the "Lights" to "0", the tool shouldn't touch
the sky.
Perhaps there are some artifacts from the JPG-compression ?

Yes, I used the pole at ca 4m. I used it to get more visible land along the shore and it makes the nadir footprint very small.
The snow at 180 deg to the sun is blownout. It tried to "repair" it using the lights tool, at 10 I think. Guess that's what made patterns in the sky.
I used the "shadow/lights" tool on the stitched pano .
I make TIFFs from DXO so there is no JPG-compression.

Next I will try the "shadow/lights" tool in DXO, before stitch, to see if it can do better.

It still puzzle me that Photomatix makes artifact in the sky. http://www.kolor.com/forum/p110286-2013 … 32#p110286
I've used it in other panos with no problem like this.

Leif


Olympus OM-D E-M5, Panasonic 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Leica 25mm f1.4, Olympus 75mm f1.8, Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L
Seitz VRdrive2
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#25 2013-01-15 12:58:33

Destiny
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From: Australia
Registered: 2010-04-27
Posts: 2418
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Re: Quasi HDR using Photomatix

I guess it also depend on the award and who is promoting it..

My first choice would be the D800 and my second would be the D4.. But it all comes down to personal choice..

Destiny..

leifs wrote:

klausesser wrote:

I don´t even know how an Olympus looks like . . . how would i know it´s mirrorless wink
best, Klaus

I guess it is of no interest, but just to let you know it if you see one
dpreview choosed it to "best camera of 2012"  with Nikon D800 in second place smile
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/01/01 … 12-results

Leif


Uploaded Images


Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod smile smile

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