Save and save regally.. is the rule

Your new PC sounds good but you would have been better off with a Mac Pro...

You might want to look at braking your project up a bit... you can do auto go to a html file... makes more sense.. Even after you save your project, with 150 pano's it will take a while to load even with your new PC...

Destiny...

Dearest Destiny, et al...

Do you really think a MacPro with 4GB of ram would have fared any better, all jokes aside? :-) ....naaaaah, nope, niet, nada, nej, NO! (sorry, didn't make it in Thai ;-) )

I think anyone with computers with less then 8GB of ram these days, better just stick to browse the net, and leave image production to better equipt computers be it Mac or PC (Windows/*nix), I do think that for what we do here, we need above average computer hardware - and NO, we don't need NASA Super computers or the CERN The Large Hadron Collider... though it would be interesting ;-)

Its rather unfortunately that people are so badly advised/informed, I think that the hardware section here have time and time again tried to bring advise, that indicates what is required from bottom to the top of the almost insane to the stupid, (I probably find myself in the later two..:-) ) ... bring the right tool for the job... you don't bring a jewellers tools to a demolition party... likewise i think the Original posters equipment isn't up for the task of such a large project. Its not an impossible project to do on such equipment, but it does require better knowledge of the resources there is at hand.

Right tool, with the right workflow, the later is probably the most important factor!!!

All the best from the west (AU) ;-)

Henrik

PS: Yes, save save and save!!!!

PPS: And pay good attention to the wise words that Klaus provides here, its gold from experience!

Destiny wrote:

Save and save regally.. is the rule

Your new PC sounds good but you would have been better off with a Mac Pro...

You might want to look at braking your project up a bit... you can do auto go to a html file... makes more sense.. Even after you save your project, with 150 pano's it will take a while to load even with your new PC...

Destiny...

oh  .. Henrik.. I did say a Mac Pro.. No way does a Mac Pro only have 4GB RAM... My iMac only has 4GIG... so its not a Pro.. oh hum... and a MacPro has Xeon processors...

http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/s … AOS-AU-KWG

ฉันจะยกโทษให้คุณพูดอะไรโง่

Destiny...

PS... I was unaware gold rust..... "PPS: And pay good attention to the wise words that Klaus provides here, its gold from experience!"

Last edited by Destiny (2012-07-27 09:50:26)

tived wrote:

it sound like the OP is on the right track when he gets his new machine (be it Mac or Not)

Hey Henrik!

You´re damn right! (i suggest at least 16GB RAM for what Rick does - no matter on Mac or Win - and some terabyte of HD/SSD)

tived wrote:

PS: I did not know that Klaus was rusty, you must know him better then me ;-)

Don´t know what "rusty" is supposed to mean in this case . . !?

best, Klaus

How much or how little to spend is up to the individuals ability to pay for it.

I have three computers plus a laptop, the oldest is 2005 mode (Dual Opteron 285)l followed by a 2007 (Intel Quadcore Extreeme) and the latest, well, the build started at the end of 2010, but is still a work in progress... Its definately in the "Over the Top" catagory, but its how I want it to be for the work I do.
I get frustrated sitting and waiting... therefor I decided back then, after having done a large shoot in the Australian Outback for two government bodies, with a fellow photographer. I back then spend 2 month, across three computers, not including my latest computer, working day and night (almost), turning out panos, HDR, focus stacking etc.... well over 200GB of raw files. Some of these pano's back then would take all night to process,using both APG and PTGui, Photoshop and Bridge as the main applications.

The job got alot bigger then what had originally been the intention, but some of us live for our art and will not compromise - ok, I try to live up to it :-)

anyway, I decided back then, that it would be cheaper to build a monster computer, that could handle most tasks, from making pano's to photo editing (retouching), now I like to work with layers so some of these pano's do tend to get very big in file size, however, i didn't want that to hold me back. Unfortunately i doubt its really possible to build something where it can handle everything and anything.

The bigger the build, the more components you add to this equation, the more likely it is for things to go wrong, and sometime you think that getting one thing will make a huge difference only to find that i won't and then you are off to the drawing board, trying to solve that issue.

2x Xeon X5650 @ 2.66Ghz, and when I replace the memory, it will be clocked at 4.3Ghz, 96GB of ECC ram,
cooled Noctua 14 heatsinks, whisper quiet
bootdisk 4x Intel 520 120GB
Scratch disk 8x Intel 520 120GB
Data Disk 8x 2TB Seagate SV35
All disks are RAID-0
Currently using the onboard raid controller and two IBM/LSI M1015/9240-8i raid controllers the two IBM are Softraid and so is the onboard one.
However, these are soon to be replaced with an Areca 1882ix 24 channel with 4GB cache and Battery backup, not sure if should go with just one or get two
This the also offers me the opportunity to increase the RAID arrays and therefor also the speed, but I will also experience that I may hit the ceiling of how fast I can transfer data over the PCIe x8, i think its 4GB/sec

as for graphics card, I am only using an ASUS GTX-460 1GB, at the moment this seems sufficient till the applications can make better use of it, as I have 7 PCIe slots, 4 of them x16 I have plenty of room for expansion
Currently most of this is housed in a LIAN LI 2120 case, particualar for this size mainboard which is frightningly large!!!
and powered by Antec 1200w power supply

Now I expect that if I add more hard drives and potentially more graphics cards as they can be utilised, I will also add a second power supply to run in parallel.

I have made some mistakes along the way, thats partly because I have been a cheapskate, the Seagate harddrives are not very well suited for this task, cheap and nasty..and I have lost some of the disks, but luckily i had it backed up. they need to go to a NAS or some backup unit, and replaced with better drives, more like enterprise class, which obviously means more $$$, secondly I assumed that because my 48GB of ram would let me overclock, that by adding another 48GB would just make it just as fast and I would be set, but thats not the case. I need to replace all 96GB to something better, so that I can get the overclock back up again, currently its only running at 3Ghz and I am wanting to reach 4.3Ghz it was before with the original 48GB, note this means, I have to go out and spend more on RAM, and I will probably take a loss on the old RAM....anyone interested in 12x 8GB Kingston DDR3 1333 ECC ram sticks...i'll do you a good deal ;-)

Apart from getting it setup, I haven't had many problems with the system, a couple of crashes over the past 1 1/2 year I have had it... you must all be surprised that a Windows 7 x64 machine is not crashing more often then this.... I know.... I am disappointed too, because my 2005 machine with Windows XP x64 has only crashed 4 times in 7 years

obviously none of this came in cheaply, but it was just over half price of the most expensive Mac Pro and still much faster.... and yes, I have thought of installing a Hackingtos on it, to see how OS X performs at 4Ghz :-)

all the best

Henrik

PS: none of this is obviously worthless without skill and good workflow.... and  I am still learning

Last edited by tived (2012-07-27 15:07:44)

Destiny wrote:

So as Ed suggests, not all things Klaus says is gold, meaning not always of great value or even correct.

I´m extremely impressed by the brilliancy of this perception . . . .

best, Klaus

Destiny wrote:

There you go Ed, you are a "Perceptually Brilliant Man"... Now that has to be Golden!..... After all, Klaus said it....

And Henrik, since Golden is the Adjective, "Shining like Gold"...... and it came from Klaus,  I assume you agree.....

Destiny...

Well - in fact i didn´t adress Ed . . .

best, Klaus

Henrik

From #2, I only suggested my opinion... However, you have been rude and belittling about my suggestion from #3 on... and you are continuing to be rude... Like everyone on this forum, we are all entitled to our opinion.... However, we are not entitled to be made to feel stupid, and since I Majored in IT and ICT I feel i do qualify to give my opinion on a workstation..., but perhaps not according to your response which was totally unnecessary.

Now what I find really annoying, if I were to use the terms "Dearest" "Chill pill princess", I would have a Moderator warning me off...

There seems to be a double standard on this forum... Now you think about it Henrik... what was so wrong about my opinion in #2 for you to begin a chain of personal abuse and putdowns.. Its seems you are happy to give it out, but not so happy to receive it back...

Destiny....

Last edited by Destiny (2012-07-28 04:19:51)

Ever since I first saw the finger control pad on a notebook/laptop years ago now, I had the thought that if only this feature was on a mouse.. Years later Apple launched its Magic Mouse.. Their mouse before that was terrible... The tiny little ball was not a nice feel and it kept clogging up with no hope of cleaning it.. Terrible mouse.. but at least it did not have the ball on the bottom which too was a pain but at least  you could clean it... I feel... and this is just my personal opinion... Henrik... so don't go off half cocked... That the Magic Mouse is about the best mouse on the market.. It never clogs up and is really nice to use... I have yet to use their track-pad thing but I am sure it has its uses..  The only downside with my Magic Mouse, it won't work on Windows 7 since I have Bootcamp.... Apparently if I updated my OS it will... but then I might get issues with other software not working so... I will leave it for when I buy my MacPro... Its on the list.... Mined you ... an upgraded iMac with 16gig of RAM and a AMD Radeon HD 6970M with 2GB might be the cheaper option to a Pro.. Not that I would know anything about Hardware.. Hey Henrik... BTW.... I was awarded DUX in my IT Major and I won DUX in my Dip Multimedia too...   Bloody good job I know how to read write and spell.. hey... I even know how to turn a computer on.. I built my first PC at the age of 18, cranked up the CPU to almost 30% more than it was designed to, which lasted all of 90 secs before it blew itself up... taking my mother board with it.. Since then I buy ready made... Mac.... Since owning my Mac, it has never locked up.. However it has crashed with ptp until I changed it from 64 bit to 32.. Personally, I feel the iMac and Mac Pro were the first computers Apple made worth buying... These days you get a lot of computer for a lot less money... and the quality is just wonderful...

Anyway, buying a computer is a personal thing and everyone has different needs.. My own needs are only restricted by $$$$.....

Destiny...

Last edited by Destiny (2012-07-29 09:09:48)

Hi Klaus,

One of the main problems with PC's, well there is probably too many to mention ;-) but, as people have been wanting cheaper and cheaper computers, corners had to be cut. This has resulted in computer hardware being sub-par, further to this is that on the windows side, some of the lower end components suppliers have very poorly written device drivers, which often have not been tested in the wide variety of components combinations that are available to a PC builder.
When you start to build a PC workstation out of quality components, the price crawls up very quickly, but they are still rarely no-where near what the Mac-Pro is with Apple components, I should say if you buy all your add-ons from Apple they will screw you - and this is one of the very big issues I have with Apple.

Going back in time, I should say, that I always have a look at the Macpro when I am buying a new workstation, which system offers me the best performance for the  $$$, in 2005 when I build my Dual Opteron 285 with 8GB of ram and 4x 1TB HDD's (Dual Processor Workstation with Tyan mainboard K8WE), yes back then that was BIG! even 8GB was rare ;-), obviously Apple didn't have AMD CPU's but a similar spec'ed Macpro, would cost me AUD$7000, without monitor more if I had picked an Apple machine.  One of the things that did push the price up was that I had two nVidia Quadro FX graphics cards in the machine. This tale continues again in 2010 when I wanted to build my current machine, however, on my particular build, i had other advantages on the PC side that was not offered on the Macpro, my EVGA SuperRecord SR-2 mainboard, Dual Xeon mainboard, is overclockable! I can now buy a $1250 XEON CPU and make it perform as a $2500 XEON CPU does (these are per CPU prices, you need two!!!), Further to that, I was able to add more memory up to 96GB of ram, as oppose to 64GB which was max at the time for the Macpro, Note this has since changed on the Macpro!!! What is interesting that the chipset on both the Apple Macpro and Intel Mainboards for PC's are suppose to support 12x16GB or 192GB total. The difference in 2010 was only AUD$5000 for the same clocked CPU's 2.66Ghz, however, if I did clock my CPU's past 3.33Ghz and I could clock them to 4.3Ghz, the price difference crawled to AUD$9000 from memory.

Now if you do have an older Macpro, there are a few things you can do to make it go a little faster and last a little longer. I have done this to several of the Photog's that I consult here, and that has been to buy Mac-memory from a PC's store, usually this is a lot cheaper then at any Mac-store. So add more RAM (16-32GB), for less. Remove the HDD's or at least two of them and replace them with SSD's, one for OS/App's and one for APG/APP/Photoshop Scratch disk or any temp disk. Additional to this I have then take the last two drives and add two Western Digital 2TB RE4 drives in OSX-Raid-1 (Mirror), now these drives are only SATA-2 but so is most older Macpro's. What this has done, is it has made the system a lot more responsive, plus by making the storage drive a Mirrored RAID, it has added a second copy in-case one of the two drives should crash. The RE4 was also the best in class drive for Enterprise drives at the time.
The big issue as Klaus has pointed out is the Graphics card, getting a bigger and faster card is not easy and not without great expense - nVidia Quadro FX(AUD$1000-4000+)/CX (AUD$2000-2500) and the high-end AMD/ATI cards do not come cheap. However, unless you are doing CAD and specialise in 3D, i wouldn't bother with Quadro's or Wildfire (whatever the AMD is called). Get the fastest Gamers graphics card that will fit.

Anyway, this has added an extra few years of usability, so far, to some of these guys Macpro's and in the commercial world of photography, any money saved is better for the profit line.

Obviously if you are shooting with a 12mpix camera, and then go for a 36Mpix or Medium format Digital Back, you are going to sink the Macpro into its knees - an total system upgrade is highly recommended here.

but getting back to the Original Posters spec's I think he will be in for a treat.

All the best

Henrik

sounds like cashe problem